Based on my hockey experience, here's what I know, Scotty Bowman has won more Stanley Cups than any coach in history, not including the Cups he's won in advisory roles (Penguins 91, Blackhawks 10, 13, 15) and players did not like playing for him, and that's being nice. Go figure. During that same Chicago Cup run, Joel Quenneville was the coach, He won three Cups and he got fired. I don't know what the explanation is there. Hockey players are notorious coach killers no matter what they say in the media. Hockey is the only sport where the coach is fired almost immediately if not sooner. I can't count how many coaches the Penguins have had. I know the list is long. If it's Sully's time, it's his time. No matter who is minding the store, the rebuild is inevitable. Good luck to FSG and Dubas in finding the coach who is going to be responsible for that, and how long it will take. Very inquisitive article, Danny.
I don’t think Sullivan is a good coach. I see a ton of the same flaws that sunk Bylsma. And this is not new, I know they were cute about it in 15-16, but Joe Thornton dunked on Sully when he was traded from San Jose. I would not be surprised if Sullivan is exposed in his next job. And I think honestly his next job may be exactly like Bylsma’s as in Buffalo hires him if we let him go.
Thing is, if Sullivan isn't a "good coach" in a vacuum, then who is? I'm more with Danny in that I think change could be needed with the Pens, but I still think Sullivan is solid.
I don’t put a lot of value on coaches. For some reason Pittsburgh seems to anoint them.
Sullivan did a lot in 15/16 similar to Bylsma with Therrien. 16/17 was a clinic in the playoffs from the staff.
Reading the quotes from Sullivan today it just makes it seem impossible that this guy will learn. He’s so damn stubborn these days. It started in 17-18 and I was willing to give him rope. 18-19, I blamed on JR’s roster construction. 19-20 is when I flipped. Guentzel - Malkin - Rust was the best line in the league and we never saw it once in the playoffs. Zucker and Crosby looked great together same thing. And let’s force feed JJ and Schultz minutes despite them being a total train wreck.
No doubt, my complaints have piled up over the years, too. I guess I just don't get how a coach can seemingly get *less* intuitive over the years. Part of me figures there has to be something else going on, but admittedly I can't find it!
After Boston General Manager Mike O'Connell traded Joe Thornton to San Jose on Wednesday, Thornton said he felt that he had been made the scapegoat for the Bruins' poor start this season.
"Obviously, they believe in their coach and G.M.," Thornton, 26, said during a conference call, referring to O'Connell and Coach Mike Sullivan. "And I'm the next in line."
I want this to happen, but they'll fire the assistants and give Sully another half-season to figure it all out while still "evaluating." My confidence in coaching and management is lower than last year.
The NFL is the only professional league where coaching acumen (X’s and O’s, game strategy, etc) has a disproportionate level of influence over player development and game results.
The job in the rest of the leagues (but especially the NHL) is simply:
A. Dealing with the media
B. Keeping the team engaged, and
C. Putting players in situations where they have a reasonable chance to succeed. Most of the time, these decisions are obvious.
After that, the players drive the bus.
The point is, there is no reason to fear losing a coach. Doesn't matter how deep his voice is, how hot he looks in a suit, how much the players "like him", or how eloquently he answers questions. Coaches are hired to be fired, even they know this.
It is clear Sully is falling short on B. & C. above. It probably (definitely) is not all his fault but there is literally *nothing* to lose by bringing in a new voice. Other than maybe a lottery pick.
But….I was told the goal is to “contend" with the current core.
Yet the issue is, replace with whom? What's the upgrade? That's not obvious at all, and perhaps not possible - and that's another parallel with another local franchise.
That's both true and says nothing, so it's also indecision:). Which is it in *this* circumstance? And, it's never sounded as if the Penguins are indecisive about Sullivan.
Hate to admit it, but it’s definitely time. I think Sully and Rierden do have good strategies, but the players just revert to what they want to do. Left for another day: why is the team so abysmal in OT? I hear they do not practice it. If true, that’s also a fireable offense.
They don't practice 3-on-3 (or at least they didn't while I covered the team). I doubt many NHL teams do.
PIT stinks in OT, at least partially due to their age and lack of speed. But man, they've had so many mind-numbing OT moments the last couple seasons that aren't necessarily related to those items.
Based on my hockey experience, here's what I know, Scotty Bowman has won more Stanley Cups than any coach in history, not including the Cups he's won in advisory roles (Penguins 91, Blackhawks 10, 13, 15) and players did not like playing for him, and that's being nice. Go figure. During that same Chicago Cup run, Joel Quenneville was the coach, He won three Cups and he got fired. I don't know what the explanation is there. Hockey players are notorious coach killers no matter what they say in the media. Hockey is the only sport where the coach is fired almost immediately if not sooner. I can't count how many coaches the Penguins have had. I know the list is long. If it's Sully's time, it's his time. No matter who is minding the store, the rebuild is inevitable. Good luck to FSG and Dubas in finding the coach who is going to be responsible for that, and how long it will take. Very inquisitive article, Danny.
I don’t think Sullivan is a good coach. I see a ton of the same flaws that sunk Bylsma. And this is not new, I know they were cute about it in 15-16, but Joe Thornton dunked on Sully when he was traded from San Jose. I would not be surprised if Sullivan is exposed in his next job. And I think honestly his next job may be exactly like Bylsma’s as in Buffalo hires him if we let him go.
Thing is, if Sullivan isn't a "good coach" in a vacuum, then who is? I'm more with Danny in that I think change could be needed with the Pens, but I still think Sullivan is solid.
I don’t put a lot of value on coaches. For some reason Pittsburgh seems to anoint them.
Sullivan did a lot in 15/16 similar to Bylsma with Therrien. 16/17 was a clinic in the playoffs from the staff.
Reading the quotes from Sullivan today it just makes it seem impossible that this guy will learn. He’s so damn stubborn these days. It started in 17-18 and I was willing to give him rope. 18-19, I blamed on JR’s roster construction. 19-20 is when I flipped. Guentzel - Malkin - Rust was the best line in the league and we never saw it once in the playoffs. Zucker and Crosby looked great together same thing. And let’s force feed JJ and Schultz minutes despite them being a total train wreck.
No doubt, my complaints have piled up over the years, too. I guess I just don't get how a coach can seemingly get *less* intuitive over the years. Part of me figures there has to be something else going on, but admittedly I can't find it!
Don't remember what you're referring to with Thornton. Gonna have to look into this.
After Boston General Manager Mike O'Connell traded Joe Thornton to San Jose on Wednesday, Thornton said he felt that he had been made the scapegoat for the Bruins' poor start this season.
"Obviously, they believe in their coach and G.M.," Thornton, 26, said during a conference call, referring to O'Connell and Coach Mike Sullivan. "And I'm the next in line."
Don't know if I'd read much into that ... that was almost 20 years ago.
I want this to happen, but they'll fire the assistants and give Sully another half-season to figure it all out while still "evaluating." My confidence in coaching and management is lower than last year.
Wouldn't surprise me at all if that's what ends up happening.
The NFL is the only professional league where coaching acumen (X’s and O’s, game strategy, etc) has a disproportionate level of influence over player development and game results.
The job in the rest of the leagues (but especially the NHL) is simply:
A. Dealing with the media
B. Keeping the team engaged, and
C. Putting players in situations where they have a reasonable chance to succeed. Most of the time, these decisions are obvious.
After that, the players drive the bus.
The point is, there is no reason to fear losing a coach. Doesn't matter how deep his voice is, how hot he looks in a suit, how much the players "like him", or how eloquently he answers questions. Coaches are hired to be fired, even they know this.
It is clear Sully is falling short on B. & C. above. It probably (definitely) is not all his fault but there is literally *nothing* to lose by bringing in a new voice. Other than maybe a lottery pick.
But….I was told the goal is to “contend" with the current core.
How hot the HC looks in a suit is, in fact, much more important than many are willing to admit!
Yet the issue is, replace with whom? What's the upgrade? That's not obvious at all, and perhaps not possible - and that's another parallel with another local franchise.
Sometimes indecision is worse than wrong decision.
Agreed.
That's both true and says nothing, so it's also indecision:). Which is it in *this* circumstance? And, it's never sounded as if the Penguins are indecisive about Sullivan.
Hate to admit it, but it’s definitely time. I think Sully and Rierden do have good strategies, but the players just revert to what they want to do. Left for another day: why is the team so abysmal in OT? I hear they do not practice it. If true, that’s also a fireable offense.
They don't practice 3-on-3 (or at least they didn't while I covered the team). I doubt many NHL teams do.
PIT stinks in OT, at least partially due to their age and lack of speed. But man, they've had so many mind-numbing OT moments the last couple seasons that aren't necessarily related to those items.